Tri-union gods and Pagan, Christian, Muslim and Jewish views on the Creator God

Yesterday we looked at those who have questions about God and how the Christadelphians try to give them an answer and offer a platform where questions can be asked.

When you look at the world of those who claim that they worship the True God, we may find Jews, Christians and Muslims. Though by the Christians and Mohammedans questions may arise. Next to Christianity we can see Christendom where there are people who call themselves Christian, and often consider themselves part of Christianity, though do not really follow the teachings of Christ (the Kristos) Jesus, whose original name is Jeshua from Nazareth, from the tribe of king David. Those so called Christians do believe in a tri-une god, like before the time of Jesus there have been also many others who believed in some three-une or three-headed gods, but of which the Bible say that they are false gods and that there is Only One True God, the God of Israel, Who is One (and as such not two, three, eight or more).

trinity-doctrine-found-in-most-pagan-religionsOf those trinitarians there are who do not seem to know about other three-headed gods, and others who claim that their tri-union god is different because he would be having all the same qualities in each personality. Though than then they do seem to miss that the god they claim to be omnipotent, omnipresent, and as omniscient all knowing, at certain points said he did not know it, though they claim he would never lie. If god knows everything (what God does) and Jesus would be God than Jesus would know when he would come back, he would know when the end-times are, he would know who would be saved, he would know who would be seated next to him, he would know he is a spirit, though he clearly stated he is no spirit and does not know all those matters, because it is only known to the Spirit God, Who has no beginning, can not be tempted, can not be done any thing by man, can not die, though Jesus was tempted many times, was killed by man (or faked his death), was three days in hell (not exactly a place for God to be), was taken out of the dead (God never be able to be death would not exactly be under the dead, is it not?), would have been taken in to the heaven to come to sit next to God (though when Jesus is God then he would sit on his own throne never next to himself but at the place of himself).

Dattatreya
Dattatreya or Dattā, deity by people from India and Nepal, having Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva in him

Those Christians who think their tri-union god or tri-une godhead is different than the other three-headed gods, like several tri-une Hindu gods (a.o. Brahma, Trisiras and Dattatreya);

Triglav - a Slav three-headed warrior god
Triglav – a Slav three-headed warrior god

or European Slav and Celtic gods like Ambisagrus or Jupiter Optimus Maximus, Nantosuelta, goddess of nature, the earth, fire, and fertility in Gaul, Triglav the three-headed warrior god, or Thor, should think twice and compare the attributes contributed to those gods and theirs, which seem to be very similar.
In several pagan religions we do find a trinity with a god father or god mother, a god son or a god word and a god spirit or god light or god thought or soul.

The Bible also speaks of such trinitarian gods like Nimrod. The Word of the One True God calls him

“a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah”

We can see that in 4th C.C.E., at the Council of Nicea of Constantine Christendom simply picked up the idea of tri-une gods to win over the pagans. They suddenly made YHWH Jehovah, Jesus and the Holy Spirit 3 persons in one godhead.

brahma-creator-god-forom-hinduism
Tri-une Hindu god who is considered the creator god, but also by other groups has four faces. He is also known as Svayambhu (self-born), Vāgīśa (Lord of Speech), and the creator of the four Vedas, one from each of his mouths

Question is if tri-une gods like the creator god Brahma or the Indian Mandhata represent the same Creator God Jehovah, but just under an other name?

Maybe similarities between Kama and Cupid, Vishwakarma and Vulcan and Indra and Zeus may lead many to hastily conclude that Hindu mythology is similar to Greek mythology. It is said that the Greeks believed in polytheism, the belief in many gods, but many Hindus say they believe in one god and as such should belong to monotheism. For them like for trinitarian Christians their god is one god who appears in different forms. For Hindu religious people their one god shows the world the different aspects of the supreme Brahmanthe supreme existence or absolute reality, avatars or incarnation of this deity on earth, like certain Christians take Jesus as the incarnation of their god or of their supreme being. In the earliest Vedic literature, all supernatural beings are called Asuras, mythological lord beings. in the Vedic religion of India and in later Hinduism, one of many gods, often roughly divided into sky, air, and earth divinities on the basis of their identification with the forces of nature. In the pantheistic systems that emerged by the Late Vedic period, the devas became subordinate to the one supreme being. 

We can see that those who want to defend the Trinity search for their answers in a lot of philosophical human tangle of thought, like in the article “The Trinity Logically Defended” where they go into numerology (a thought of man) instead of using God’s Word to show their way of thinking would be right. The writer Renassault, at Reasoned ruminations, claims the other tri-une gods may not exist whilst his tri-une god exist, though he does not evince it at all, nor does he give any proof the other deities would not exist. For him moreover, the philosopher who popularized Nominalism to the present day, the  medieval French scholastic philosopher, theologian and preeminent logician Peter Abelard, considered the past and future to be just as non-existent universals as numbers, so do we have to accept that the past nor the future exist? And what has this to do with the reality of a tri-une god or with the existence of the Real One God who created the being and the elements man uses to divide time?

The writer of the above mentioned article The Trinity Logically Defended says he is not arguing that what he says proves there must have been a God who created everything/something at all. But he writes

I’m only pointing out that the answer is the same logically consistent answer as how the Trinity can be true and non-contradictory. If the cause that originated the universe was eternal, why did it create the universe in this way? Randomly and arbitrarily you say? But if there were an infinite number of possible random variations, like Zeno’s Paradox, how was one even “picked”? {The Trinity Logically Defended}

For him the answer of it all lies in or deals with the Trinity. He also does not seem to believe man would ever be able to follow God’s commandments. With that thinking he implies God demanded from the start something He knew man would never be able to keep, which makes of this God a very cruel God.

For that writer the God

Father is the source of the Trinity and the Son and Spirit both have their source in the Father, yet without a point in time being created. The three person all have the same Will—that of the Father, they cannot contradict each other, or operate independently, they only do the Father’s will. {The Trinity Logically Defended}

In many other faiths where they worship a three headed god they also claim their gods being from the same source and having the equal powers, having the same will. He claims his tri-union god cannot contradict each other though we see Jesus claiming God is greater than him, which would be a contradiction if Jesus is that same God. At one point Jesus also prays to God and says that he wants that the Will of God shall be done and not his (Jesus) will. In case Jesus is God it shall always God’s or his will.

Nowhere does he proof that

Christ also confesses He has a second another will–that of a human. {The Trinity Logically Defended}

In several defences of those who believe in a tri-une god, we never come to see a real logical explanation or a real clear Biblical explanation of that three-headed construction. Having another will than that of God would make the god those trinitarians adhere not having a god of the same will, like the other trinitarian gods in polytheism.

A monotheist religion should only be called this way when it really has one (mono) god as the main figure to be worshipped. Jews, Christians and Muslims claim to be part of the monotheist religions.

It is not bad to have a look at what those religions teach about their God. At the end of 2016 two websites got to see the light of this world. One tries to look at the God of the Muslim world in comparison to the God of the Christian world. That new site, dares to pose many questions and wants people to look at possible answers many communities offer for the questions which are on many believers and non-believers lips. Questiontime-Vragenuurtje is there for you to ask your questions and to go in dialogue. A Lastige Vragensteller or a Troublesome Inquirer takes the floor and shall bring quotes for the Quran as well as the Christian Bible to put answers from Scriptures in the spotlight.

question-time-20161201-opening-day

Some of the vital questions already posed are:

  1. The first question: Why do we live
  2. 2nd question: What or where is the beginning
  3. 3rd question: Does there exist a Divine Creator
  4. Is there no ‘proof’ for God? (And why that statement is not as smart as you might think.)

and some of the answers already posed:

  1. Looking for answers on the question Is there a God #1 Many gods
  2. Looking for answers on the question Is there a God #2 Pantheon of gods and celebrations
  3. Have no other gods besides Me
  4. Nature Is A Reflection Of God

Immanuel Verbondskind looks at the difference between the Jewish tradition and Christian faith and the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Who according to the Holy Scriptures was also the God of rabbi Jeshua, Jesus Christ and his disciples, though the tri-une god of many Christians would never be the God of the Jews.

immanuel-theme-able-20161226-1630-5

Immanuel started at his site to explain that having the name Immanuel does not mean that person is God.  After having looked at “Called Immanuel does not mean to be Jesus being God” he opened with a series on how to read the Holy Scriptures, this with the idea that to come to know the Real True God and to find out who Jesus really is, he thinks it is “Best to read and study the Bible

Immanuel Verbondskind shall look at the teaching of the different Christian denominations and compare them to the teachings of the Jewish rabbi Jeshua, better know today as Jesus Christ. Jesus and his disciples their knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures plays an important role in how shall be looked at the distortions which may have come into Christendom. Immanuel shall take those basic Judaic Scriptures and examine what the chosen pupils of Jesus made out of it and what they wrote down in the Messianic Scriptures, better known by many Christians as the New Testament. He shall not be averse to look at Jewish traditions and other Jewish literature or theological works, comparing it with Christian theological works and Christian traditions to find out how they fit in the way of thinking of the Messiah Jeshua, the Christ Jesus.

Both new blogs should be a good asset to come to know the divine Creator and to come to know how Jehovah God relates to Jesus and Jesus to the world.

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Preceding

A Start for looking at the unseen and the treasure to look forward to

Relating to God is it possible

Can you question the existence of God

Are there certain books essential to come to faith

A King who wanted to extol a King above all kings

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Find a.o.

  1. Christadelphian Yuku Platform
  2. Trinity matter
  3. Questiontime-Vragenuurtje
  4. Immanuel Verbondskind

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Additional reading

  1. Only One God
  2. God is only One
  3. Attributes to God
  4. Glory of only One God Who gives His Word
  5. People Seeking for God 3 Laws and directions
  6. Christianity without the Trinity
  7. Hellenistic influences
  8. Germanic mythological influences up to today’s Christmas celebrations
  9. Our World: Jewish and Christian traditions of elders
  10. Denominationalism exists because?
  11. Silence, devotion, Salafists, quietists, weaponry, bombings, books, writers and terrorists
  12. Jesus three days in hell
  13. Eostre, Easter, White god, chocolate eggs, Easter bunnies and metaphorical resurrection
  14. Revelation 1:8 – Who is Speaking?
  15. How did the Trinity Doctrine Develop
  16. History of the acceptance of a three-in-one God
  17. Altered to fit a Trinity
  18. It happened on May 2 295
  19. 1691 years ago on June the 20th in 325
  20. Necessity of a revelation of creation 2 Organisation of a system of things
  21. Framework and vehicle for Christian Scholasticism and loss of confidence
  22. How Did Jesus Become White? By Richard Stockton
  23. Problems correspondents have with the Trinity Doctrine

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Further reading
  1. Three-headed gods
  2. Three Headed Hindu God Shiva :Tri Mukhi Hindu Lord Mahadev
  3. Lakshmi Maa
  4. Triglav – The Three Headed God
  5. Pokristjanjevanje alpskih Slovanov
  6. Is God comprised of three persons, or is He just one person?
  7. The Trinity: paganism or Christianity?
  8. The History of the Development of the Trinity Doctrine
  9. Trinity And Pagan Influence
  10. James White and John 1:1 Regarding “Was”
  11. John 1:1,2 – The Word was Mighty
  12. John 4:26 – EGO EIMI and Jesus’ Claim to be the Messiah
  13. Luke 1:35 and the Trinity
  14. The Real Reasons for Not Believing the Trinity
  15. The God of Jesus
  16. Questions for those who believe in the Trinity
  17. “If God Exists”
  18. Who Created God and What Existed Before Him
  19. The Trinity Logically Defended
  20. Christianity – Nature of God
  21. A Perfect Example of Acedia
  22. Edward Gibbon on religion in the Roman Empire
  23. The Lie of White Identity
  24. Njord God of… Fire?
  25. Henotheology!
  26. Twelfth Night & Wassail
  27. Christmas: a miracle of understanding
  28. Merry Christmas 2016
  29. Surah 16:71 – How Could The Creator Be Compared to created?
  30. How is that God? Objections and Responses to the Argument From Change
  31. Reblog: Many Gods

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Related articles

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Can you question the existence of God

The Question Is What Is the Question?
The Question Is What Is the Question? (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

You may wonder if there really exist a God. You have all reason to question His existence and to check if you are feeling right or thinking the right way. We are even  requested to examine our own faith. It is important to know what you want to believe, what you want to take for the truth.

Lots of people  are looking for answers in their life. Many of them also have an inner feeling that sometimes frightens them. They do not know where to look at for what is troubling their inner soul.

They might think others have a catchphrase, a cliché, or a phrase to throw around lightly, but all should know that the matter of the Divine Creator is not something to take light hearted. It is serious business.

All people should know that we were created in the image of the Divine Creator for a good reason. We are expected to have fellowship with Him. But we also must know that from the beginning the great deceiver himself was there – doing everything he could to separate us from our Creator and from each other. It is that adversary which troubles our hearts and makes us wandering about on this globe where we can see so much trouble and suffering, all because so many are not living according to the wishes of the Most Divine and by doing so they are making a mess of it.

But then Who is that Most Divine? Who is that Divine Creator? Who is the Originator of everything what we see around us?

That are good questions we should pose ourselves.

We have all reason to wonder if there really can exist Some One Who can heal the brokenhearted and set captives free. [Psalm 34:17-18 and John 8:36]. And if He really can move mountains and change lives [Psalm 97:5 and Colossians 3], or can cause the rise and fall of nations [Psalm 33: 8-12].

Do you know there is even a place where you can ask such questions or have your thoughts running free. On the net there is a message board or forum where your questions are welcome.

Christadelphian Forum (started August 2016)

While there is no quick fix, God’s Word is clear and the message is simple.

At the place Christadelpian where many people may exchange ideas easily hopefully many will bring forth some good subjects also. To start off the following opening articles can be found

  1. Welcome to Christadelphian
  2. Places of interest to get more knowledge about God
  3. Places of interest to get more knowledge about God
  4. Christadelphian a Christian
  5. A god, The God and gods
  6. How do you look at religion
  7. What or which god are you looking at and going for and who or what do you want to worship
  8. Christianity and Religiosity in Europe

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Preceding

Relating to God is it possible

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Additional reading

  1. 3rd question: Does there exist a Divine Creator
  2. Looking for answers on the question Is there a God #1 Many gods
  3. Looking for answers on the question Is there a God #2 Pantheon of gods and celebrations
  4. Have no other gods besides Me
  5. When feeling sad, not sure of there being a Divine Creator
  6. Seeing or not seeing and willingness to find God
  7. Science, belief, denial and visibility 2
  8. The Question is this…
  9. Pascal’s Possibility
  10. The Presence of God
  11. Not staying alone in your search for truth
  12. What I Hope For Is What You Hope For
  13. God Our Refuge
  14. Jehovah steep rock and fortress, source of insight
  15. Al-Fatiha [The Opening] Süra 1:1-7 Help from God our Maker
  16. On the Edge of Believing
  17. Ideas about Religiosity
  18. Religions and Mainliners
  19. Christians, secularism, morals and values
  20. Engagement in an actual two-way conversation with your deities
  21. Nature Is A Reflection Of God
  22. People Seeking for God 5 Bread of life
  23. People Seeking for God 7 The Lord and lords
  24. Lord in place of the divine name

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Further reading

  1. Addressing the God Paradoxes
  2. Does God Exist?
  3. Does God Exist? The Moral Argument, Part 1
  4. How do we know God exists?
  5. Change Happens. Does that Mean God Exists?
  6. Existence of God
  7. Quote 24: Existence of God
  8. “If God Exists”
  9. Convince Me There’s A God – Archaeology 30
  10. Convince Me There’s A God – Archaeology 32
  11. Convince Me There’s A God – Archaeology 34
  12. Convince Me There’s A God – Archaeology 35 + Convince Me There’s A God – Archaeology 35
  13. Steve Fuller on Proofs for God’s Existence: An Interview, Eugene Loginov
  14. Does God Exist? Summary Video
  15. Quest for God 2
  16. Can Atheists Know That God Does Not Exist? by Garland M. Robinson
  17. Theism Is Ill-Defined
  18. What is God Like? Attributes of God
  19. Ontological Argument For God’s Existence: Anselm of Canterbury

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For Dutch speaking readers #1 On the first component of a triptych

English: A representation of the relation amon...
A representation of the relation among complexity classes, which are subsets of each other. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

On this site only English articles are presented, but for most of them a translation in Dutch shall be provided and shared between the triptych concerning the “Looking and Finding God”.

As such texts in Dutch may be found on “Op zoek naar God“, “De Weg naar God” and on “God vinden“.

Op zoek naar God = A la recherche de Dieu = Looking for God
Op zoek naar God = A la recherche de Dieu = Looking for God

At the moment the material of the previous postings is cut in different parts and presented as follows:

On the first component “Op zoek naar God” (Seeking God) you may find

After the Welcome message “Welkomstboodschap”  we look at the beginning of our world with “Ontstaan van ons wereldbestel”  and let our readers know that the idea of a certain evolution does not have to stand in the way of religious thinking. (Evolutieleer hoeft zoeken naar God niet in de weg te staan) Though when looking at the evolution and how are world continues it requires many thoughts and lots of research. In “Onderzoek eist bewijsvoering en afgaan op bewijsmateriaal” we want to get our readers to understand that by research we do have to use sufficient research material and have to look sincerely at the proofs our environment gives about certain events.

English: Right sole print showing a great degr...
Right sole print showing a great degree of complexity (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

We also are aware that man has lots of questions bothering him and that he needs answers on them. “Met vragen zitten over ontstaan en redenen van zijn” bring to the forefront that we may have lots of questions about our being and the reasons of our being here. “Ontstaan en complexiteit in de natuur verwijzend naar Bijzondere Oorzaak” (Origin and complexity in nature referring to Special Cause) looks at the beginning of man and the complexity behind our being or existence. In a certain way when we look at nature and how all the existing things have such a complexity which goes above the brains and capacity of man, it shows how a particular Mighty Hand or Supreme Being has to be above it. (Complexiteit, organisatie en precisie bewijzen intelligente Ontwerper = Complexity, organization and precision evidence intelligent Designer)

English: This is a map of the new field of soc...
This is a map of the new field of sociology and complexity science (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

In “Argumenten tegen Bijbelse scheppingsverhaal ontzenuwd” (Arguments against biblical creation story refuted) we look at the creation and how certain people their ideas are contradicted and how we should better look at other Biblical texts (taking the whole 66 books their sayings into account) before we jump to conclusions. None of the texts may be separated from the other.

Romans 15:4 (RNKJV)
4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

1 Corinthians 10:11  (RNKJV)
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

2 Timothy 3:16  (RNKJV)
All scripture is given by inspiration of יהוה, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 3:17  (RNKJV)
That the man of יהוה may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Looking at those books we have to come to know what to look for and where to look for. In “Welke dingen zoeken” (To look for what) we give a start to the quest for “the unseen” and bring an introduction to “De zoeker naar God en wereldse schatten” (The seeker for God and worldly treasures)

When you want to go on a search for truth and for God you may doubt if you would have enough time and if you could arrange it with your school-, home- or professional work. In “Werken, studeren en zoeken samen mogelijk” (Work, study and search together possible) we show our readers that it is possible to have your worldly duties not suffering under your spiritual duties. Going on a quest to find the truth, looking for the reasons of our being, has not to intervene with our normal daily duties. You can do both together, searching for God and searching for a normal life. It even helps to look for God in getting a more successful life.

English: Pentagram with one point up (de Guait...
Pentagram with one point up (de Guaita) Includes form of the “Pentagrammaton” (i.e. an incorrect attempt to derive a version of the Hebrew name of Jesus by adding the letter shin ש in the middle of the Tetragrammaton divine name yod-he-waw-he יהוה ). (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

On every bodies lips will be if we can sense God. In “Kan men God zoeken en ervaren” (Is it possible to look for God and to experience God) Yes it is possible when we look for God to find Him and to experience Him, though God can not be seen, but all He does can be seen and experienced.

At the start of your quest you may wonder if  there can be a connection between God and man > “Is er een verbinding tussen God en mens?
Is it possible to connect to something one can not touch nor see? > “Kan men een verbinding maken met iets dat men niet kan aanraken” (Can you make a connection to something that one can not touch)

On this site and our counterparts (in English and Dutch) we love to show that though there may be many ways to get somewhere, there is a road pattern presented to us, to easily find the right and shortest way to follow to go through a small gate and to make the right connection. > “Wegpatroon volgen om verbindingen aan te gaan” (Road pattern to follow to get links)

We do have to be conscious that there are roadblocks. In this world there are many things which stand in the way to come to a good relationship with the One Unseen Who is behind everything. Materialism is the killer which has here eyes on each of us.  In “Materie en tijdelijkheid” (Matter and temporal) we look at those things which surround us and attract a lot of people. The majority in this world is convinced that richness of wealthy materialistic things shall bring them unfinished luck, joy and good friendship with others. In their conceitedness they lounge away from real luck, deceived by commercialism and media who lure us in all sorts, but the wrong adventures.

We all have to face the restricted lifespan of everything. “Het levende, het verderfelijke en het gestorvene” (The living, the pernicious and that what died) looks at all those things which surround us and which would like to gather, but should know about them, that we can not take them with us in our grave to another life.

We must know that there shall come a time when there shall be looked at the people who behaved themselves well, the good ones and the bad ones of this earth. “Goeden, slechten en het zichtbare en onzichtbare” (Good, bad and the visible and invisible) brings a sort of warning that we should take in mind what will be important in later days.

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Nederlandstaligen zulen voor een groot deel de Engelse teksten, die op deze en de Weebly site worden gebracht, ook in meerdere hoofdstukken verdeeld vinden onder de drie onderdelen van de triptiek.

Hierbocen wordt even een overzicht verschaft van wat de aanvang van “Op zoek naar God” in het Nederlands te bieden heeft.

In het volgende hoofdstuk kijken wij naar de begin inhoud van het tweede luik van de triptiek om God te zoeken en te vinden.

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