Tri-union gods and Pagan, Christian, Muslim and Jewish views on the Creator God

On 2017-01-092017-01-10 By Relating to GodIn Christadelphian, Christianity, God the Father - Eternal Jehovah, Religion & Church, Trinity11 Comments

Yesterday we looked at those who have questions about God and how the Christadelphians try to give them an answer and offer a platform where questions can be asked.

When you look at the world of those who claim that they worship the True God, we may find Jews, Christians and Muslims. Though by the Christians and Mohammedans questions may arise. Next to Christianity we can see Christendom where there are people who call themselves Christian, and often consider themselves part of Christianity, though do not really follow the teachings of Christ (the Kristos) Jesus, whose original name is Jeshua from Nazareth, from the tribe of king David. Those so called Christians do believe in a tri-une god, like before the time of Jesus there have been also many others who believed in some three-une or three-headed gods, but of which the Bible say that they are false gods and that there is Only One True God, the God of Israel, Who is One (and as such not two, three, eight or more).

Of those trinitarians there are who do not seem to know about other three-headed gods, and others who claim that their tri-union god is different because he would be having all the same qualities in each personality. Though than then they do seem to miss that the god they claim to be omnipotent, omnipresent, and as omniscient all knowing, at certain points said he did not know it, though they claim he would never lie. If god knows everything (what God does) and Jesus would be God than Jesus would know when he would come back, he would know when the end-times are, he would know who would be saved, he would know who would be seated next to him, he would know he is a spirit, though he clearly stated he is no spirit and does not know all those matters, because it is only known to the Spirit God, Who has no beginning, can not be tempted, can not be done any thing by man, can not die, though Jesus was tempted many times, was killed by man (or faked his death), was three days in hell (not exactly a place for God to be), was taken out of the dead (God never be able to be death would not exactly be under the dead, is it not?), would have been taken in to the heaven to come to sit next to God (though when Jesus is God then he would sit on his own throne never next to himself but at the place of himself).

Dattatreya or Dattā, deity by people from India and Nepal, having Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva in him

Those Christians who think their tri-union god or tri-une godhead is different than the other three-headed gods, like several tri-une Hindu gods (a.o. Brahma, Trisiras and Dattatreya);

Triglav – a Slav three-headed warrior god

or European Slav and Celtic gods like Ambisagrus or Jupiter Optimus Maximus, Nantosuelta, goddess of nature, the earth, fire, and fertility in Gaul, Triglav the three-headed warrior god, or Thor, should think twice and compare the attributes contributed to those gods and theirs, which seem to be very similar.
In several pagan religions we do find a trinity with a god father or god mother, a god son or a god word and a god spirit or god light or god thought or soul.

The Bible also speaks of such trinitarian gods like Nimrod. The Word of the One True God calls him

“a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah”

We can see that in 4th C.C.E., at the Council of Nicea of Constantine Christendom simply picked up the idea of tri-une gods to win over the pagans. They suddenly made YHWH Jehovah, Jesus and the Holy Spirit 3 persons in one godhead.

Tri-une Hindu god who is considered the creator god, but also by other groups has four faces. He is also known as Svayambhu (self-born), Vāgīśa (Lord of Speech), and the creator of the four Vedas, one from each of his mouths

Question is if tri-une gods like the creator god Brahma or the Indian Mandhata represent the same Creator God Jehovah, but just under an other name?

Maybe similarities between Kama and Cupid, Vishwakarma and Vulcan and Indra and Zeus may lead many to hastily conclude that Hindu mythology is similar to Greek mythology. It is said that the Greeks believed in polytheism, the belief in many gods, but many Hindus say they believe in one god and as such should belong to monotheism. For them like for trinitarian Christians their god is one god who appears in different forms. For Hindu religious people their one god shows the world the different aspects of the supreme Brahman, the supreme existence or absolute reality, avatars or incarnation of this deity on earth, like certain Christians take Jesus as the incarnation of their god or of their supreme being. In the earliest Vedic literature, all supernatural beings are called Asuras, mythological lord beings. in the Vedic religion of India and in later Hinduism, one of many gods, often roughly divided into sky, air, and earth divinities on the basis of their identification with the forces of nature. In the pantheistic systems that emerged by the Late Vedic period, the devas became subordinate to the one supreme being.

We can see that those who want to defend the Trinity search for their answers in a lot of philosophical human tangle of thought, like in the article “The Trinity Logically Defended” where they go into numerology (a thought of man) instead of using God’s Word to show their way of thinking would be right. The writer Renassault, at Reasoned ruminations, claims the other tri-une gods may not exist whilst his tri-une god exist, though he does not evince it at all, nor does he give any proof the other deities would not exist. For him moreover, the philosopher who popularized Nominalism to the present day, the medieval French scholastic philosopher, theologian and preeminent logician Peter Abelard, considered the past and future to be just as non-existent universals as numbers, so do we have to accept that the past nor the future exist? And what has this to do with the reality of a tri-une god or with the existence of the Real One God who created the being and the elements man uses to divide time?

The writer of the above mentioned article The Trinity Logically Defended says he is not arguing that what he says proves there must have been a God who created everything/something at all. But he writes

I’m only pointing out that the answer is the same logically consistent answer as how the Trinity can be true and non-contradictory. If the cause that originated the universe was eternal, why did it create the universe in this way? Randomly and arbitrarily you say? But if there were an infinite number of possible random variations, like Zeno’s Paradox, how was one even “picked”? {The Trinity Logically Defended}

For him the answer of it all lies in or deals with the Trinity. He also does not seem to believe man would ever be able to follow God’s commandments. With that thinking he implies God demanded from the start something He knew man would never be able to keep, which makes of this God a very cruel God.

For that writer the God

Father is the source of the Trinity and the Son and Spirit both have their source in the Father, yet without a point in time being created. The three person all have the same Will—that of the Father, they cannot contradict each other, or operate independently, they only do the Father’s will. {The Trinity Logically Defended}

In many other faiths where they worship a three headed god they also claim their gods being from the same source and having the equal powers, having the same will. He claims his tri-union god cannot contradict each other though we see Jesus claiming God is greater than him, which would be a contradiction if Jesus is that same God. At one point Jesus also prays to God and says that he wants that the Will of God shall be done and not his (Jesus) will. In case Jesus is God it shall always God’s or his will.

Nowhere does he proof that

Christ also confesses He has a second another will–that of a human. {The Trinity Logically Defended}

In several defences of those who believe in a tri-une god, we never come to see a real logical explanation or a real clear Biblical explanation of that three-headed construction. Having another will than that of God would make the god those trinitarians adhere not having a god of the same will, like the other trinitarian gods in polytheism.

A monotheist religion should only be called this way when it really has one (mono) god as the main figure to be worshipped. Jews, Christians and Muslims claim to be part of the monotheist religions.

It is not bad to have a look at what those religions teach about their God. At the end of 2016 two websites got to see the light of this world. One tries to look at the God of the Muslim world in comparison to the God of the Christian world. That new site, dares to pose many questions and wants people to look at possible answers many communities offer for the questions which are on many believers and non-believers lips. Questiontime-Vragenuurtje is there for you to ask your questions and to go in dialogue. A Lastige Vragensteller or a Troublesome Inquirer takes the floor and shall bring quotes for the Quran as well as the Christian Bible to put answers from Scriptures in the spotlight.

Some of the vital questions already posed are:

and some of the answers already posed:

Immanuel Verbondskind looks at the difference between the Jewish tradition and Christian faith and the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Who according to the Holy Scriptures was also the God of rabbi Jeshua, Jesus Christ and his disciples, though the tri-une god of many Christians would never be the God of the Jews.

Immanuel started at his site to explain that having the name Immanuel does not mean that person is God. After having looked at “Called Immanuel does not mean to be Jesus being God” he opened with a series on how to read the Holy Scriptures, this with the idea that to come to know the Real True God and to find out who Jesus really is, he thinks it is “Best to read and study the Bible“ and explains how we can do this the best way, not forgetting that making time for God is an essential part of our daily life.

Immanuel Verbondskind shall look at the teaching of the different Christian denominations and compare them to the teachings of the Jewish rabbi Jeshua, better know today as Jesus Christ. Jesus and his disciples their knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures plays an important role in how shall be looked at the distortions which may have come into Christendom. Immanuel shall take those basic Judaic Scriptures and examine what the chosen pupils of Jesus made out of it and what they wrote down in the Messianic Scriptures, better known by many Christians as the New Testament. He shall not be averse to look at Jewish traditions and other Jewish literature or theological works, comparing it with Christian theological works and Christian traditions to find out how they fit in the way of thinking of the Messiah Jeshua, the Christ Jesus.

Both new blogs should be a good asset to come to know the divine Creator and to come to know how Jehovah God relates to Jesus and Jesus to the world.

Preceding

A Start for looking at the unseen and the treasure to look forward to

Relating to God is it possible

Can you question the existence of God

Are there certain books essential to come to faith

A King who wanted to extol a King above all kings

Find a.o.

Additional reading

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Religious people and painful absence of spring of living water

On 2016-03-302016-03-30 By GuestspeakerIn Christianity, God the Father - Eternal Jehovah, Jeshua - Jesus Christ Son of God, Relationship & Connection, Religion & Church21 Comments

Religious people often are looking for their gods or for The God and may find those gods or God useful for obtaining things in life. It is said that

Christians find God beautiful and knowing Him is the chief good they seek. {Gazing Upon True Beauty}

Lots of those people who call themselves Christian do not see the spiritual lifeline that will keep them from giving their heart to lesser loves and other beauties that will ultimately lead them into bondage, misery, and despair.

With most of those calling themselves Christian there is a painful absence of the spring of the living water, welling up in the lives of many walking around on this earth.

The fundamental reason why is that we have obeyed our thirst rather than embracing God’s gift. {Image is Nothing…Thirst is Everything…Obey Your Thirst}

Most Christians do not listen to the words of Jesus or do not want to hear what he says about his relationship with his heavenly Father. They prefer to listen to the false teachings of those who call themselves theologians and twist the words of the Holy Scriptures.

To cherish to commend gave on 2016 March 18 a sound definition from the British-born Canadian Christian theologian who is known in the low church Anglican and Reformed traditions, James I. Packer his classic book Knowing God in the chapter “Thy Word is Truth”

“A person who acknowledges and lives under the Word of God. He submits without reserve to the Word of God written in ‘the Scripture of truth’ (Daniel 10:21), believing the teaching, trusting the promises, following the commands. His eyes are to the God of the Bible as his Father, and the Christ of the Bible as his Savior. The Word of God has convinced him of sin and assured him of forgiveness. He aspires to have his whole life brought into line with it. The promises are before him as he prays, and the precepts are before him as he moves among others.

He knows that in addition to the Word of God spoken directly to him the Scriptures, God’s Word has also gone forth to create, and control, and order things around him; but since the Scriptures tell him that all things work together for his good, the thought of God ordering his circumstances brings him only joy. He is an independent fellow, for he uses the Word of God as a touchstone by which to test the various views that are put to him, and he will not touch anything which he is not sure that Scripture sanctions.”

J.I. Packer asked back in 1973: “Why does this description fit so few of us who profess to be Christians these days?” He concludes: “You will find it profitable to ask your conscience, and let it tell you.” {What is a Christian}

Jesus very well knew the Scriptures. After he was born he had to learn everything and before his death had still to say he did knew a lot of things not, whilst only God knows everything. The One Who can not die placed Jesus above the angels (him having been lower than angels before), but Jesus knew also he could not do anything without God Who is greater than him.

English: Resurrection of Christ — Resurrection of Christ (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

The Only True God Who send his only begotten beloved son to the world has given the world a spring for new life. Because that man, not doing his own will, not falling for temptation, always showing his love for God and fulfilling God’s commandments, accepted his ransom offering and took him out of the dead, to come to sit next to (or besides) Him (God) as a high-priest and mediator between Him (God) and man.

Ephesians 1:20 (Anderson)
which he made active in the Christ when he raised him from the dead, and caused him to sit at his right hand in the heavenly places,

Matthew 26:64 (Anderson)
64 Jesus said to him: You have said. Moreover, I say to you, Hereafter you shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of the Almighty, and coming upon the clouds of heaven.

Hebrews 1:3 (Anderson)
who, being the effulgence of his glory and the exact representation of his essence, and upholding all things by his own powerful word, when he had by himself made expiation for our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Hebrews 10:12 (Anderson)
but after offering one sacrifice for sins, he himself sits continually at the right hand of God,

Hebrews 3:1-3 (Anderson)

Hebrews 3
1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2 who is faithful to him that appointed him, as Moses also was faithful in all his house. 3 For this man is counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who has builded the house, has more honor than the house.

Hebrews 3:1-3 (Anderson)

Hebrews 3
1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2 who is faithful to him that appointed him, as Moses also was faithful in all his house. 3 For this man is counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who has builded the house, has more honor than the house.

1 Timothy 2:5-7 (Anderson)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, [of which] the testimony [has been given] in its proper times, 7 to give which testimony I have been appointed a preacher and an apostle; (I speak the truth, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faithfulness and in truth.

Those who call themselves Christian should belief what Jesus says and what the God Who does not tell lies says. they also should come together to the city of the living God, becoming partakers of the Body of Christ. Together they should unite and become one with Christ, as Christ is one with God. The ones who call themselves “Christian” should belong to the congregation of the firstborn, who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous, who have been made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant. They should really appreciate to have received the grace of salvation under the sprinkled blood that speaks of something better than Abel’s does.

Real Christians are those who follow the teachings of Christ and take care not to refuse the one who is speaking!

Hebrews 12:22-27 (Anderson)
22 But you have come to Mount Zion, and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels; 23 to the general assembly and church of the first-born, who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the just made perfect, 24 and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than the blood of Abel. 25 See that you reject not him that speaks: for if they escaped not who rejected that earthly man who gave the oracles, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that is from heaven, 26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now he has promised, saying, Yet once more I will shake not the earth only, but also the heaven. 27 And this [prophecy], Yet once more, signifies the removing of the things that are shaken, as of things that have been made, that the things which can not be shaken may remain.

The native New Mexican with roots in Santa Fe and Albuquerque Paul Smith, ventures into troubling waters today or is into foggy skies, wrestling for the past few days with a question that recurs frequently in conversations among brothers and sisters in Christ.

That question is, “Who is my brother or sister in Christ?” {Boundaries of Brotherhood}

Which is a very important question by which we as Christians should stand still. Because being a Christian is as follower of Christ also wanting to be a Brother in Christ.

At the center of the discussion is the frequently repeated and much discussed phrase, “in necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus charitas.” (in matters of necessity, unity; in matters of doubt, liberty; in all things love) Confusion and ignorance reign. {Boundaries of Brotherhood}

We should be fully aware that there is a big difference in which way those Christians consider Jesus to be “Lord“. Lots of them want to make him to be the Most Highest Lord of lords instead of the worldly Lord of lords, the son of man and son of God.

Intellectually we may know that God’s grace must exceed our own human limits – otherwise we would be God!

– but emotionally I have a hard time welcoming those who disagree with me. After all, I am always right (c’mon – my tongue is firmly planted in my cheek). {Boundaries of Brotherhood}

writes the blogger of Instrument rated theology.

He seems to know that he must reject out-of-hand the growing chorus of the “easy believeism” that is sweeping through the Churches of Christ, and says

That is nothing other than the “Cheap Grace” identified by Dietrich Bonhoeffer. We cannot accept that two diametrically opposite views of Holy Scripture can both be correct. We cannot accept that two diametrically opposed views of worship – or especially of the requirements of Kingdom membership – can both be correct. We must allow for differences of opinion and conscience, but at some point there must be a determination of wrong and right, of heresy and of sound doctrine. Likewise, we must be careful that we do not elevate our own intellectual prowess to the level of God’s judgment. We do not tell God who is a part of his Kingdom, God does that. Refer to my Undeniable Truth for Theological Reflection #1, the foundation for theology must be humility. Our greatest error is in proclaiming that we are beyond making errors. If universalism is wrong, so is Phariseeism. {Boundaries of Brotherhood}

At the same time it is that want to have our human ideas instead of accepting the words of the Holy Scriptures that is dividing Christendom and Christianity. Human beings preferring to stick to human doctrines instead of Biblical doctrines make it that we do have so many denominations.

Problem is that not enough people are willing to pray for God’s Spirit to guide us into the healthy truth. When they ask their own gods (except from the Only One True God, not Jesus but Jehovah), whoever they might be, we do not think they will get answers from them, but if they listen carefully they shall be able to hear the Call of God, because God knows the heart, and when they sincerely want to look for God He shall guide them.

– the truth that sets proper boundaries where God has placed them, and not where fallible humans have placed them. {Boundaries of Brotherhood}

Pastor Craig Schweitzer thinks

Jesus is challenging us to open our hearts and minds to hear today’s humbling good news – God’s immeasurable love. {“God Loves You.” 03.06.2016 Sermon}

and asks

Are you and I open to that good news? The good news of our prodigal God’s immeasurable love that is freely and extravagantly shared with all: love that we cannot earn, love that we do not deserve. And our response to God’s grace and mercy encourages and invites us, even pleads with us, to share God’s perfect love with others. Even when those others look and act a whole lot like the two sons in today’s parable. (This section was inspired by the writing in Day Resources, Sundays & Seasons.com) {“God Loves You.” 03.06.2016 Sermon}

It makes it important for us to decide which way we do want to go. do we want ot keep to human tradition and keep sticking to the so called Holy Trinity, or do we want to take the Word of God, the Bible to be infallible and telling us the truth?

Fewer and fewer people take the time for deep study and thought anymore, partly because of the busyness of our lives. We are quick to believe what we hear on social media or in the news because we just can’t be bothered with actually taking the time to investigate and think for ourselves. {Sounds Nice, But is it in the Bible?}

At this site we do ask you to compare what we and others say, with what is written in the most sacred Book of books and best-seller of all times: the Bible.

Let the living water flow of the pages of that book. Let it come into your hands, into your heart and into your spirit, opening your eyes and showing you that Jesus is the Way to the Only One True God.

Read also

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Relating to God

Tag: Scriptures